Stupid required fields didn't accept the KV I put directly behind the one. It should read 1000 volts in that format, sorry! Its late and it was last night too. Ha!
That begs the question: How the heck did you manage to get 1000 volts to your electrolyzer and how the heck did it produce 1.8 liters with only .25 amps? That's like having a river bed a mile wide with only a trickle of water flowing through it.
Your electrical system requires a more detailed description.
My electrical system is a hybrid of several out there, and some of my own modifications. I'm using the Stan Meyer waveform, with a circuit that is basically the same as Dave Lawton. From there I'm running the waveform through a CMOS mosfet driver chip, TC4420, and then into the MOSFET an IRF510. The difference in my circuit is that I'm not using the FET for switching. I tried that, and found that I had only a two volt p-p signal on the loaded output of the cell.
So I decided to try using the FET as a current limiter instead, like they do in a wall dimmer switch for your house. I'm pulsing the driver signal, 12v 6a, down through the primary of a MOT I modified, and then through the FET to ground. I'm holding the FET on with a potentiometer wired to +Vcc. This way I can control how much of the 6a I'm sending through the MOT.
The secondary of the MOT is putting out about 500v, which is then run into the HV alternator I built. It's taking the 500VDC pulses from the MOT, and ramping them up to about 1KV. The output of the re-wired stator and rotor is around 2KV, which I then have rectified with a voltage doubler. This puts the alternator output at around 4KV(unloaded). As any unloaded circuit will put out more than a loaded one, the loaded output of the alternator is around 1kv, with only a fraction of an amp.
I'm able to measure the amperage at the cell, at around .25a which seems to be a bit more generated amperage than what I wanted, I'm not exactly sure where the amps are coming from, unless I'm bleeding them through somehow from the frequency sample I'm taking from the input and output.
I had a schematic to start with, but I've moved past the original, and discarded it, so I'll have to draw up one from the actual unit. There's been quite a few changes since proof, you all know how that goes.
This seems to fly in the face of the conventional wisdom espoused by just about everyone that says it is excess voltage that causes overheating. I see you have your peak temperature rated at 90o.
As with any electronics device, a capacitor being no different, any time you have excess voltage the voltage is disbursed through wattage i.e. heat. This is in direct proportion to the current that is present, as it is the current, activated by the excess voltage that creates the runaway condition we all fear in our circuitry. The WFC, or 'water capacitor' is no different. It is a circuit component, at this point, and can be looked at as nothing else.
In electronics, an excess charge across the capacitor in any circuit is manifested in one of three ways:
1: The voltage spike is too much physically for the plates and physically punctures the capacitor plates by arcing usually causing a direct short problem.
2: The current level is too high for the voltage required, and the electrolyte itself heats up to produce that lovely smell we all know. I've smoked my fair share of components.
3: The third and more unusual thing, although it does happen, is when the current decreases as the voltage spikes, and the electrolyte again takes the shot, again giving you that nasty smell.
In the second, the electrolyte taking the shot from the current is where the heat is generated, and is where the problem lies. In the third, the voltage usually spikes across in an arc, directly shorting the plates through actual travel of arc, which we all know causes an excess of voltage and current.
However, when the amps are restricted to the point where the voltage cannot arc, there is where the static potential charge of voltage is occurring. In such cases, a capacitor has been widely known to go into 'pseudo-breakdown', where the cap starts to burn, then stops, then starts again, then stops. Or just goes to half function and sticks there, throwing the entire circuit off. Almost impossible to find when this is what is causing the whole system to malfunction, or a just major part of it.
I worked in a TV repair shop for a while and this is one of the major problems of this art. I've personally worked on several units that some veterans of the shop finally took mercy on me and told me to look for these caps, and they were right. Because of experience. Nothing in the manuals says that caps do this, nothing in the TV repair instructions says that they do this, it just happens that way. Call your local TV shop and ask, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to talk to you.
What I've done here is to engineer this capacitor to fail, over and over again, in the third way, while replacing the electrolyte constantly. It's making the circuit break on purpose, and that's what we've all been trained against, even me. But that isn't the way the universe works. Everything breaks, and everything is supposed to.
If you're getting excess heat from your high voltage, its because the current is there to feed the wattage. Remove the flame, and the heat goes away. If your capacitor electrodes, in this case mine are tubes, are physically able to withstand an arc without puncture, you could use an arc system of electrolysis, like they use with the tungsten or carbon rods. (Plasma) If not, like mine which are just stainless tubing, they won't take an arc, but they'll let a really good charge build up before an arc ever happens. Charge them to just before the arc point, and you have pure voltage potential with no current. Or minimal current, anyway. Do that about 900 times a second, and you're working into the range Meyer talked about. If there's nowhere for the current to go to, it won't flow, but the charge still has to dissipate. Into the Water it goes, as we all know how good water can take a charge, but if you pass current through it, electrolysis, no lasting charge, and burned water. Which means it got hot.
Meyer said his circuit was pulling about 4-6 amps during operation. He said his cell was only consuming a fraction of that, and that he was measuring his efficiency from what the cell itself was consuming, past the isolation. The isolation is what allowed the current to be eliminated out, and not passed from signal to output. After reading it all four to six times over, It all seemed simple. no current, lots of voltage, no heat.
Tesla did a lot of the same thing with his cold electricity work. None of that stuff runs hot. Look at Bedini and Bearden. The SG motor is running on cold electricity to put it into lay terms. No heat generated there. In fact, most of the units cause a drop in temperature in the surrounding area.
Tesla did all he did because he didn't let anybody tell him how to think about his work. He thought on it in his own way. We've all been told how to think about this for so long, its causing us problems now. All of us. Me included.
I banged my head against the concrete wall of a basement for six months before I got it. Then I banged my head for another couple of months trying to take my research back to where it was when I had it right and didn't know. I wonder how many of us has accidentally hit upon the answer and didn't know it because it seemed wrong at the time.
You can connect up an NPN transistor biased properly, and you'll get a waveform out upon switching. If you backwards connect the thing, theoretically, it shouldn't work. But if you put a resistor between the emitter and collector, you can feed the waveform through the emitter and out the base to +Vcc, and the waveform is just upside down. Shouldn't work, but it does. No books on that around in ready supply.
There are lots of ways to get anything done, and none of them are right over another that gets the same job done in a different way. It's just a different perspective.
That was a very good explanation. It sounds like you have a lot to offer our little community here at Aquauto.
I hope you don't lose patience. I can, sometimes, be a little slow on the uptake. I'm a picture straightener. I have to have everything square and plumb in my minds eye before It makes any sense to me.
Yes, thank you. Although I don't 'how' it is done (like what electronics) I can at least somewhat understand the premise behind it.
I agree with Nick, it does sound like you have a lot of knowledge to offer our little community. I have much more of a mechanical background than an electrical one so your knowledge is very welcome:).
Hey no problem at all! I totally enjoy sharing, if you guys need any help with any electronics, let me know. I'll keep on posting more blogs and bulletins as I get my stuff closer to getting onto the VAN.
I found a video of a guy that's getting what he's showing to be 5-6 LPM pulsing. I think that's about 3-4 LPM in pressure sense? I'm not sure how that all adds up yet. Anybody got any info on that let me know. Anyway, here's the link:
I'm thinking he's just started with the Pulse width modulation, because most of his website deals with straight voltage. I believe he's still hard driving the "supergen" with the PWM and not adding in the isolation components.
Basically, whatever pulse width modulated square wave signal you use, with an isolation transformer, they can all function as the Meyer system does.
He said: "This is all in the audio range, so like you can use an audio transformer, and get the job done."
I take that to mean that he's using audio frequencies, which are quite defined, and that if you isolate them from themselves, and cancel out the current through Bi-filar induction in the basic "tank" circuit, you'll get the same output he did. That's the start of where I'm at.
I'm moving towards driving a solid state Tesla coil with the output connected to the cell, for a large resonant pulse of extremely high voltage with no current potential in the traditional sense anyway. That will be driven with energy from a Bedini device, and powering I don't know what. It''s mainly just for laughs, I get bored easily. It might work though, what if I put the cell inside the tube of a Tesla coil being driven by the Tesla coil... I have lots of theories. My wife says I'm a mad scientist! (That means she's really interested.)
Anyway, that's all for now. Thanks again for the warm reception you guys, I'll definitely be sticking around!
Judging from the video, his PWM is like mine in that it only allows adjustment of the duty cycle. I also wonder if his flow meter was specifically calibrated for hydroxy gas. I've never heard of one that is. Hydrogen and oxygen each have a different specific gravity and create different pressure densities.
?????
You got 1.8 LPM with 1 volt and .25 amps? How the heck did you do that?
RE: 1.8lpm ???????????
Stupid required fields didn't accept the KV I put directly behind the one. It should read 1000 volts in that format, sorry! Its late and it was last night too. Ha!
RE: RE: 1.8
That begs the question: How the heck did you manage to get 1000 volts to your electrolyzer and how the heck did it produce 1.8 liters with only .25 amps? That's like having a river bed a mile wide with only a trickle of water flowing through it.
Your electrical system requires a more detailed description.
RE: Electrical system...
Hello all.
My electrical system is a hybrid of several out there, and some of my own modifications. I'm using the Stan Meyer waveform, with a circuit that is basically the same as Dave Lawton. From there I'm running the waveform through a CMOS mosfet driver chip, TC4420, and then into the MOSFET an IRF510. The difference in my circuit is that I'm not using the FET for switching. I tried that, and found that I had only a two volt p-p signal on the loaded output of the cell.
So I decided to try using the FET as a current limiter instead, like they do in a wall dimmer switch for your house. I'm pulsing the driver signal, 12v 6a, down through the primary of a MOT I modified, and then through the FET to ground. I'm holding the FET on with a potentiometer wired to +Vcc. This way I can control how much of the 6a I'm sending through the MOT.
The secondary of the MOT is putting out about 500v, which is then run into the HV alternator I built. It's taking the 500VDC pulses from the MOT, and ramping them up to about 1KV. The output of the re-wired stator and rotor is around 2KV, which I then have rectified with a voltage doubler. This puts the alternator output at around 4KV(unloaded). As any unloaded circuit will put out more than a loaded one, the loaded output of the alternator is around 1kv, with only a fraction of an amp.
I'm able to measure the amperage at the cell, at around .25a which seems to be a bit more generated amperage than what I wanted, I'm not exactly sure where the amps are coming from, unless I'm bleeding them through somehow from the frequency sample I'm taking from the input and output.
I had a schematic to start with, but I've moved past the original, and discarded it, so I'll have to draw up one from the actual unit. There's been quite a few changes since proof, you all know how that goes.
Unconventional
This seems to fly in the face of the conventional wisdom espoused by just about everyone that says it is excess voltage that causes overheating. I see you have your peak temperature rated at 90o.
RE Unconventional
Well...
As with any electronics device, a capacitor being no different, any time you have excess voltage the voltage is disbursed through wattage i.e. heat. This is in direct proportion to the current that is present, as it is the current, activated by the excess voltage that creates the runaway condition we all fear in our circuitry. The WFC, or 'water capacitor' is no different. It is a circuit component, at this point, and can be looked at as nothing else.
In electronics, an excess charge across the capacitor in any circuit is manifested in one of three ways:
1: The voltage spike is too much physically for the plates and physically punctures the capacitor plates by arcing usually causing a direct short problem.
2: The current level is too high for the voltage required, and the electrolyte itself heats up to produce that lovely smell we all know. I've smoked my fair share of components.
3: The third and more unusual thing, although it does happen, is when the current decreases as the voltage spikes, and the electrolyte again takes the shot, again giving you that nasty smell.
In the second, the electrolyte taking the shot from the current is where the heat is generated, and is where the problem lies. In the third, the voltage usually spikes across in an arc, directly shorting the plates through actual travel of arc, which we all know causes an excess of voltage and current.
However, when the amps are restricted to the point where the voltage cannot arc, there is where the static potential charge of voltage is occurring. In such cases, a capacitor has been widely known to go into 'pseudo-breakdown', where the cap starts to burn, then stops, then starts again, then stops. Or just goes to half function and sticks there, throwing the entire circuit off. Almost impossible to find when this is what is causing the whole system to malfunction, or a just major part of it.
I worked in a TV repair shop for a while and this is one of the major problems of this art. I've personally worked on several units that some veterans of the shop finally took mercy on me and told me to look for these caps, and they were right. Because of experience. Nothing in the manuals says that caps do this, nothing in the TV repair instructions says that they do this, it just happens that way. Call your local TV shop and ask, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to talk to you.
What I've done here is to engineer this capacitor to fail, over and over again, in the third way, while replacing the electrolyte constantly. It's making the circuit break on purpose, and that's what we've all been trained against, even me. But that isn't the way the universe works. Everything breaks, and everything is supposed to.
If you're getting excess heat from your high voltage, its because the current is there to feed the wattage. Remove the flame, and the heat goes away. If your capacitor electrodes, in this case mine are tubes, are physically able to withstand an arc without puncture, you could use an arc system of electrolysis, like they use with the tungsten or carbon rods. (Plasma) If not, like mine which are just stainless tubing, they won't take an arc, but they'll let a really good charge build up before an arc ever happens. Charge them to just before the arc point, and you have pure voltage potential with no current. Or minimal current, anyway. Do that about 900 times a second, and you're working into the range Meyer talked about. If there's nowhere for the current to go to, it won't flow, but the charge still has to dissipate. Into the Water it goes, as we all know how good water can take a charge, but if you pass current through it, electrolysis, no lasting charge, and burned water. Which means it got hot.
Meyer said his circuit was pulling about 4-6 amps during operation. He said his cell was only consuming a fraction of that, and that he was measuring his efficiency from what the cell itself was consuming, past the isolation. The isolation is what allowed the current to be eliminated out, and not passed from signal to output. After reading it all four to six times over, It all seemed simple. no current, lots of voltage, no heat.
Tesla did a lot of the same thing with his cold electricity work. None of that stuff runs hot. Look at Bedini and Bearden. The SG motor is running on cold electricity to put it into lay terms. No heat generated there. In fact, most of the units cause a drop in temperature in the surrounding area.
Tesla did all he did because he didn't let anybody tell him how to think about his work. He thought on it in his own way. We've all been told how to think about this for so long, its causing us problems now. All of us. Me included.
I banged my head against the concrete wall of a basement for six months before I got it. Then I banged my head for another couple of months trying to take my research back to where it was when I had it right and didn't know. I wonder how many of us has accidentally hit upon the answer and didn't know it because it seemed wrong at the time.
You can connect up an NPN transistor biased properly, and you'll get a waveform out upon switching. If you backwards connect the thing, theoretically, it shouldn't work. But if you put a resistor between the emitter and collector, you can feed the waveform through the emitter and out the base to +Vcc, and the waveform is just upside down. Shouldn't work, but it does. No books on that around in ready supply.
There are lots of ways to get anything done, and none of them are right over another that gets the same job done in a different way. It's just a different perspective.
Thank you
That was a very good explanation. It sounds like you have a lot to offer our little community here at Aquauto.
I hope you don't lose patience. I can, sometimes, be a little slow on the uptake. I'm a picture straightener. I have to have everything square and plumb in my minds eye before It makes any sense to me.
Welcome,
Nick
High Voltage
Yes, thank you. Although I don't 'how' it is done (like what electronics) I can at least somewhat understand the premise behind it.
I agree with Nick, it does sound like you have a lot of knowledge to offer our little community. I have much more of a mechanical background than an electrical one so your knowledge is very welcome:).
Thank YOU guys...
Hey no problem at all! I totally enjoy sharing, if you guys need any help with any electronics, let me know. I'll keep on posting more blogs and bulletins as I get my stuff closer to getting onto the VAN.
I found a video of a guy that's getting what he's showing to be 5-6 LPM pulsing. I think that's about 3-4 LPM in pressure sense? I'm not sure how that all adds up yet. Anybody got any info on that let me know. Anyway, here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY-0EEwd1vE
here's his website @ http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/
I'm thinking he's just started with the Pulse width modulation, because most of his website deals with straight voltage. I believe he's still hard driving the "supergen" with the PWM and not adding in the isolation components.
Basically, whatever pulse width modulated square wave signal you use, with an isolation transformer, they can all function as the Meyer system does.
He said: "This is all in the audio range, so like you can use an audio transformer, and get the job done."
I take that to mean that he's using audio frequencies, which are quite defined, and that if you isolate them from themselves, and cancel out the current through Bi-filar induction in the basic "tank" circuit, you'll get the same output he did. That's the start of where I'm at.
I'm moving towards driving a solid state Tesla coil with the output connected to the cell, for a large resonant pulse of extremely high voltage with no current potential in the traditional sense anyway. That will be driven with energy from a Bedini device, and powering I don't know what. It''s mainly just for laughs, I get bored easily. It might work though, what if I put the cell inside the tube of a Tesla coil being driven by the Tesla coil... I have lots of theories. My wife says I'm a mad scientist! (That means she's really interested.)
Anyway, that's all for now. Thanks again for the warm reception you guys, I'll definitely be sticking around!
B
Duty Cycle
Judging from the video, his PWM is like mine in that it only allows adjustment of the duty cycle. I also wonder if his flow meter was specifically calibrated for hydroxy gas. I've never heard of one that is. Hydrogen and oxygen each have a different specific gravity and create different pressure densities.