I've had this conversation a hundred times and most people just don't seem to understand the relationship between current (amperage) and voltage (potential). While discussing certain aspects of my design, I had this conversation AGAIN yesterday and that's why I decided to write this.
It is current flowing against a resistance that does work and produces heat; NOT EXCESS VOLTAGE. I know, this goes against what most people say, but let me explain why a series of cells runs cooler. It's true that cells, in a series, divides the voltage just like everyone tells you. In an electrolyzer set up in a series configuration, the electrodes act like a series of resistors in a circuit. Resistors of equal value, in a series, equally divides the voltage (thus reducing it) between the cells, but what this is really doing is lowering the POTENTIAL to carry CURRENT and that's why a series of cells draws less amperage and, consequently, runs cooler.
People, please stop spreading the misconception that excess voltage causes heat. You can have a bazillion volts, but if you can limit the amperage, you can limit the heat.
I'm trying to process this. What you said makes sense but I've always thought of it the other way. So let me ask a question.
Lets say you have a series of 6 boosters (like your Prometheus) and it is running at 12 volts 10 amps and doesn't produce much heat. What if you double the voltage but keep your amperage the same... wouldn't you generate more heat? I would think so because your power goes from 120 watts to 240 watts. You would need to lower your amperage to keep the temp down... right?
I did some research on this and found this statement "voltage (V in volts) is an expression of the available energy per unit charge which drives the electric current " here. So I think your right in that it is the current (amps) that cause the heat, but it is the voltage that drives the current.
So I don't know if it is right to say one or the other (V or A) causes excess heat, but they work together ( you can never have one without the other... can you? ) that creates the heat.
Aquauto.com = Good
Doubling the voltage is like opening the other door on a set of double doors. It is still the current that does the work and causes the heat. It's just a wider river of current and we should also discuss resistance, but, look, there are all sorts of convoluted esoteric aspects to this. I'm talking to 99.99% of the people who are basically concerned with a simple 12 volt automotive system.
I understand... I was just kind of thinking out loud and processing it.
Aquauto.com = Good
I kind of like the river analogy. You can think of current as being the current of the water flowing in the river and voltage as being the width of the river. Rocks, pebbles, debris in the river and along the river bottom (some being moved and some being stubborn) can be thought of as resistance and work being done.
I don't know if your analogy is quite right. I don't mean to argue, ever since you've said that I've started Googling it.
This link http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/miscon/voltage.html correlates voltage more with pressure than size of the tube/pipe.
This link http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/miscon/voltage.html (see the misc notes) compares voltage more to the height of the stream that powers a waterwheel.
Both examples would show voltage to have a difference in energy potential, which is the definition of voltage, see here. The pressure example has high pressure (high potential) before the resistor and low pressure (lower potential) after. The waterwheel water has high elevation (high potential) then falls to a lower level (low potential)
In your example, if you were to measure the river's depth/width before the rocks/pebles and then after, they would be the same. There would be no difference and thus no measurement.
I'm not saying your above assumption is wrong (about amps causing heat) I'm saying your river analogy might be a little off.
Aquauto.com = Good
When I took Electronics in school the teacher gave this one:
Think of Voltage as a water tank with a pipe coming from the bottom of it.
Think of Amps as the water flowing through the pipe and the resistance as the size of the pipe.
Meaning Bigger the tank more pressure from the weight of the water.
More Amps (velocity) from the increase of pressure (Voltage).
The smaller the the pipe (less resistance) the higher the velocity (Amps).
This has always kept me straight until I started working with matter in different states.
And I don't mean California vs Florida.
If any of these observations/terms/conclusions of mine are off, please step in:
Depending on the enclosure I have to work with, and the available electrodes, the higher the voltage - the more distance between + and - to mitigate the heat problem. I've had customers come in looking for one way valves for their water 4 gas boosters, so I asked to see their setups. 2 bolts in a glass jar 2 or 3 inches apart, baking soda, running for 30 minutes straight, no heat at full 12+ volts (I felt em.) 12+ volts at 1/8" spacing boils the water. 5mm spacing on a 4 series (3.45v) produces little heat, and 1.55mm spacing on a 6 series (2.3v) is luke warm after 2 hours.
Conclusion:
Less voltage allows for less distance between plates which allows more work producing plates to fit in a given space.
Lol, I understand
When I pictured your river I thought of a slow moving river with almost not potential difference between point 1 and point 2. Thanks for adding some dams and outlets just for me
. I agree with you that there are no perfect analogies.
Aquauto.com = Good
"The smaller the the pipe (less resistance) the higher the velocity (Amps)."
I think you need a larger pipe to increase (analogous to reducing the value of the resistor) the flow. The smaller the pipe diameter the greater its resistance (analogous to increasing the value of the resistor) to water flow.
That's what happens when you do not proof read your post.
Thanks for correcting me.
Ever since I first started investigating this whole electrolysis thing, I've thought that the key to successful design would be in reducing the reisitance as much as possible. The more I fool around with this stuff the more certain I become that my original instincts were correct.
Too many people are concerned with limiting amperage when what they should be doing is just the opposite. Everyone who is working within the normal operating parameters for conventional electrolysis, should be doing everything they can to get their electrolyzer to draw as many amps as possible with as little voltage as possible. There are only a few way to do this.
We are pretty much stuck with having to use stainless steel for electrodes because of the corrosive effects of the electrolyte and that's too bad because stainless steel is not a very good conductor of electricity. 304 is a better conductor than 316, but 304 will gunk up the water faster.
What we can do is use the largest and thinnest plates that are practical for our design. We also want to use the maximum concentration of electrolyte. With NaOH, that is about 2 pounds and 6 ounces per gallon of distilled water. Slightly higher concentrations are possible with KOH, but not much. If this causes your electrolyzer to draw too many amps, then you need more bipolar (neutral) plates...pure and simple. Last, but not least, your power wires need to be as fat and short as you can get them. 4/0 SGT battery cable would be ideal and you want to find the nearest place to ground your electrolyzer to your car's chassis as you can.